(1) " Do you think ritual abuse can be defined and if so how would you define it? "ANS: No, it cannot be defined because it doesn't exist. It is a confusion caused by a combination of cultural prejudice and ignorance in the observer and has no objective existence. One of the reasons why the SRAM (Satanic Ritual Abuse Myth) has persevered so long is that professionals will not give up the idea yet are unable to define it in a way which does not draw in counterparts from EVERY religious philosophy. The moment they look at these basic religious comparisons they see that depending upon the INTERPRETATION any and every spiritual belief can become suspect, even those which obviously aren't guilty of SRAM. They therefore shy away from a detailed definition relying instead upon an ambiguous statement about what is presumed to be the EFFECT of ritualised abuse. One such definition runs "people who abuse children as part of a religious doctrine" and/or "people who use occult trappings in order to frighten the children into obedience and secrecy". Even these can be clearly seen to be incorrect. The Jewish ritual of circumcision would fall within the first and the use of a Vicar's robes of office and his position of influence in the community would apply to the latter. As we have proved that child-abusing vicars are 100 times more likely to perpetrate crimes than Satanists (see BLACK MUSEUM 1 & 2) the activist social workers ideology comes full circle and we are left, yet again, with the fact that there is no such thing as Satanic Ritual Abuse, Ritual Abuse, Ritualised Abuse, or any similar phenomenon. Child Sexual and physica abuse is sexual and physical abuse; there is no other distinction and no other distinction is necessary.

2: "How do you regard the views held by fundamentalist Christian Groups on the one hand and the S.A.F.F. on the other regarding ritual abuse?"ANS: Christians have to believe in Satan for their theology is dependent upon his existence. Fundamentalists in particular, whose literal interpretation of the bible involves end-time ministry and the prospect of the 2nd coming of Jesus MUST see Satan under every sofa to reach their own salvation. Occultists do not believe in the devil for Witches and Pagans do not have a devil figure in their cosmology. To be a Satanist you have to believe not only in the devil but in the Christian God and therefore must be a lapsed Christian, not an occultist. This basic misunderstanding perhaps encapsulates the misconceptions about occultism by outsiders. Knowing all this, it is obvious to occultists that fundamentalists are on the wrong track, but like social workers, they won't listen. Ultimately we know that satanic ritual abuse doesn't exist because there is absolutely no convincing evidence to prove it. We know satanists. They don't do that kind of thing and they have said publicly that they don't. It is not a requirement of their liturgy. Fundamentalists have been caught out lying about this on a myriad of occasions. There is more circumstancial evidence to prove that Mickey Mouse is a real person than there is to prove that ritualistic abuse exists. It doesn't matter what fundamentalists believe. Some people believe the world is flat; some that it is hollow. Some people believe that Elvis Presley is still alive. So what? Belief doesn't matter. What matters are the FACTS and there are more facts to disprove SRAM than to support it

(3) : "When do you think ritual abuse first came to the attention of the British press? "ANS: During the spring of 1988 fundamentalists and the ideological cabals within social work began to form their campaigns to promote SRAM. The latter rode piggy-back on the sensationalism of the former, mostly the campaigns were separate, but often they worked in unison. There were three watersheds. First the involvement of MP Geoffrey Dickens and the now discredited Dianne Core in April 1988 then in conjunction with the despicable SHE magazine article Witches Hide Out in November 1988; Broadcast of the irresponsible The Time, The Place programme in December 1988 which featured Audrey Harper and Maureen Davies, Kevin Logan and Dianne Core and the biggest watershed during July 1989 when the Cook Report broadcast its infamous and utterly inaccurate The Devil's Work special and then pressed the NSPCC into making their July 17 press release which took the British press by storm. Throughout the hysteri a the only consistent thing was the abject refusal by any newspaper, TV company, Radio company, Social Worker and MP to actually bother to talk to the people whom they were accusing. If they had done so the scare would have bit the dust immediately

.. (4) "I believe cases of ritual abuse were first reported in the U.S.A. and have now come to the attention of the press in the U.K. What reasons do you think there are for this?"ANS: You mean 'so-called' cases of ritual abuse. There has never been one case proven either in the U.S.A. or the U.K. Indeed, they had their 'Orkney' crisis with the McMartin Trial and the defendants were freed. We are always 5 years behind the U.S.A. and professionals tend to adopt U.S.A. driven leading-edge ideologies. The rise in new social ideologies related to the non-nuclear family co-incided with the emotional response to evil within American society by the promotion of self-righteousness by the TV ministries in the U.S.A. The amount of cash generated by these ministries is staggering. Jerry Falwell's ministry alone turned over twice as much money as the Vatican during 1986. With all that money and resources they were white-knights looking for something to champion and caused a lot of change based on art ificial fears and paranoia. Change occurred far too rapidly for 'straight' society to cope. The fundamentalist network in the U.S.A. and U.K. and Europe is very well organised and exists to import and distribute books, magazines, monographs and ideologies. For their 'shepherding' practices to work they found many special interest groups which need to discover illnesses in society which need their attention. They therefore have a ready made communication infrastructure already amalgamated with church-related charitable institutions and community projects which enable them to quickly 'hype' any new 'discovery' placing it at the most influential position possible within our society without necessarily admitting their hidden agenda or ultimate theocratic intentions

(5) "How do you think the quality press has portrayed the recent ritual abuse cases"ANS: As badly as the tabloids. The 'quality' papers simply couched it all in more intellectual prose. Perhaps they are MORE to blame for the end result because social workers don't read the SUN but they do read the Guardian and that newspaper (as well as others) has printed some deplorable journalism in connection with the SRAM. If you like, the 'quality' newspapers draped the skeleton of SRAM sensationalism with logical arguments and biased 'expertise' making it greater than the sum of its parts. You need to be aware that the S.A.F.F. have mailed out evidence to the 'quality' newspapers on a continuous and repetitive basis over a 2 year period. We have repetitively discredited the people whom they originally listened to but not one of the journalists who has written pro-SRAMist articles have ever responded to our mailings. That's what a lot of professionals do when they make a mistake so BIG that they daren't admit that they were wrong

.. (6) "What implications do you think this has meant for social work practice?" ANS: It can only be seen as a form of self-destruction and it exposes the way that the social work industry is controlled top-down with ideologies instead of ground up by common-sense and skilled experience. Most rank-and-file social workers don't believe in the SRAM but the people who make the running are stampeding the ideology in such a way AND KEEPING THEIR RANK AND FILE IN THE DARK BY WORKING TO BLIND THEM TO THE REAL EVIDENCE, that ordinary social workers in the field are bowled along with it all. Social Workers are trained to respond to dictates from 'experts' rather from common-sense. This could be because of the insecurity caused by lack of official qualifications for social work but we see it more as a gullible response to any ideology which provides a justification and perpetuation for the social work industry which would like to see itself as a 'profession'. Occultists can see that social work utterly f ailed our society miserably over the past four years. Social Workers have used their power-shadow to try and brush those mistakes under the carpet. This won't work and is another indication of how out of control it all is. The SRAM was partly the ultimate result of a social work system which had got out of control. The more social services try and pursue the matter, the greater will the disasters become. We told John Gilbert (editor of Social Work Today, this two years ago, but like many, he wouldn't listen and has systematically backed the pro-SRAMists to the detriment of the industry.

(7) "How do you think social workers should react to press comment?" & (8) How would you suggest social workers approach and deal with the press? ANS: Poor social workers. Victimisation by the press is not by any means limited to social work. Occultists get it ALL the time and not just about SRAM either. What is needed is not a 'way' to deal with the press, but a statutory right of reply and a change in the defamation laws with legal aid for plaintiffs. THAT and only that will stop newspapers printing sensational lies, mis-quotes, inciting invective and exaggerated allegations without foundation. Then Social Workers, occultists and everyone else will be able to answer the criticisms in an informed debate, instead of the rampant bias and manipulation which occurs at present. The British Press (and the broadcast media) were instrumental in promoting the SRAM. We have the worst media in the world and there is no safe way of dealing with them except to cave in to their unwritten rules, which often goes against the best needs of the community and society at large and is therefore not an option to those with integrity.

.(9) Do you think that there are any lessons that social workesr can learn from the Nottingham Rochdale and Orkney cases and if so what? ANS: Social Workers should not be involved in investigations to uncover or apportion guilt, this should strictly be a police matter. The police are not only trained in detection but have great experience of the base instincts of human nature developing a 'nose' for anything counterfeit. They are far less gullible than social workers and this is clearly shown by their response in Nottingham where the largest disagreement was over the interpretation of disclosure evidence. This is not to say that the police don't over-react, for it seems many of their requirements caused the stormtrooper like tactics in Rochdale and Orkney. However throughout the SRAM scare we can categorically say that it is the caution and worldliness of the police which has been the limiting and balancing factor. As a social worker you might not like this - but it is nevertheless true. There are m any other Rochdales and Orkneys which did not come to fruition precisely because of the sceptical nature of the police. Social Workers should care for the social needs of those involved in the situation without taking sides. Their job is to see to the welfare of the client. The only detective work necessary is judging the probability of abuse. Anything else is outside their remit. Social workers already provide a holistic service to ALL clients but it is disjointed by time and space dealing with therapy for the victims first and therapy for the perpetrator after punishment. It seems the only thing holding the industry back from bringing all this together into one instantaneous caring operation is over-moralised dualistic thinking. Just by implimenting the Butler Sloss guidelines and involving the whole family in the procedure in a less formal way, with social workers safety-netting all involved, better understanding and more comfortable compromises would result. The splitting up of families should har dly ever occur; if it must occur then leaving children with grandparents or close family friends would be a humane alternative. Children's homes should be 'holiday homes' where kids feel like they are on holiday, not in a prison. Coastal or countryside locations, outdoor activities, new personal skills and sports etc. with the ability to contact home whenever necessary. It's not impossible to arrange all this. It would cost no more than the mediocre homes we have at present. Social Workers must learn that the human condition is imperfect and that it is unreasonable to demand that anyone fit an artificially constructed aggregate of 'normality'. That a person's nature and idiosyncracies must be acknowledged as part of their character and that whilst all of us need help at some time, too much help or interference can be more destructive than allowing the situation to play itself out. They must learn that life is unjust and that it is utopian to believe that it is possible to perfect everyone's life by changin g social standards or indulging in ideological warfare in order to change the social structure of our society. Social Workers must realise that their work is to help with the immediate concerns and individual welfare of their client and beware embarking upon career agrandisement using their clients as pawns in the process. All of these things went wrong in Nottingham, Rochdale and Orkney.

(10) "What practical recommendations or policy changes would you suggest for Social Workesr delaing with alleged ritual bause cases? " ANS: They should do the only commonsensical thing; and reject the allegations as misdirection. The question in any particular case is not whether ritual abuse exists but whether child abuse has taken place or has a more than even chance of taking place if nothing is done to intervene. If there is evidence that this is the case , based on symptoms which can be universally applied to all cases, then the usual systems should be brought into effect. Claims of ritualised abuse should be ignored and the ideology struck from favour. Social workers are not moral champions of public good; they are professionals who care for victims of social inequities and crimes against children. SRAM is a form of cultural prejudice built upon religious bigotry and Xenophobia. It follows that those people more ignorant and more prejudiced and more bigoted are precisely the ones ready to discover or interpret new cases. It follows that many social workers live in a rarified atmosphere out of touch with what changes are taking place in our society. There is no doubt that extra training in cultural pluralism is necessary to enable them to make proper judgements about cases. This in itself would go part way to demolishing the myth of ritualised abuse. Whilst ever Ritualised Abuse remains a current ideology within Social Work victimisations of innocent people who do not conform to White European Middle-Class Standards will be prevalent and Rochdale and Orkney copy-cat cases will continue to happen. Unless you rid yourselves of the scare the social work industry will continue to tear itself apart. Ends:

(c) world copyright holders: The Sub-culture Alternatives Freedom Foundation (S.A.F.F.) Leeds, Yorkshire, U.K.

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